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It’s been awhile since we’ve had a discussion thread, don’t you think? With the new interviews and articles released since the Changeling premiere, I thought we could talk about something we’ve brought up in comments here and there before – the paparazzi and the kids.
I was particularly struck by two comments that Angelina made which were highlighted on I’m Not Obsessed.
One was when Angelina Jolie mentioned how they find places where they can be a normal family:
“Usually, places where there are other parents with children are okay – other parents are much more respectful of our privacy than many people because they understand what it’s like just to want to be with your kids. Parents are much kinder to us than some other members of the public.”
That makes so much sense to me. I know non-parents could also have respect and understanding about when it is and is not okay to start screaming, “Brad! Angie!” like a crazy person. In line at a premiere by the red carpet? Okay, scream! At a park with a bunch of kids, including the Jolie-Pitt kids? Not okay!
Then there was the quote which I mentioned in a previous post, as to how they explain the paparazzi to the kids anyway. Which is an important detail, but while Brad and Angelina are huge celebrities to us, they’re just Mom and Dad to their kids.
“When the kids ask us why people are taking our pictures, we say, ‘Mommy and Daddy make movies and that’s why some people want to know about us.’ We want to make sure that they know there’s nothing special or different about us – it is just a fact of our lives that we happen to make movies so people want to take our pictures.”
Now, here’s what I want to discuss. Despite their massive fame, it has always seemed to me that Brad and Angelina do everything they can to provide a stable family life for their kids and are doing their best to raise them with respect and love. And yet every time they step out the door with their kids, people in droves have something negative to say.
So why is it that Brad and Angelina get all the negativity but other celebrity parents do not? I almost never hear the same kind of snipes thrown at Jennifer Garner when she’s out with Violet Affleck. Madonna can take Lourdes out with her and that’s not considered a publicity stunt or throwing her daughter to the wolves. People are worried about the Scientology aspect, but beyond that, people are thrilled to see Katie Holmes and Suri Cruise out and about. Gwen Stefani is seen with Kingston Rossdale and that’s just fine, everyone loves that!
Why is everyone else getting a free pass but Brad and Angelina don’t? Discuss!
(It should be noted that no celebrity children can escape people with a lack of class. You should see some of the awful things people write about Violet and Lourdes, physically speaking. It’s mind-blowing how adults can still be just as cruel as kids in school yards.)
UNDER MOD:
JoliePittFan, Lara & Mary Ann,
Before moving on to the specifics of the JP kids (are the white biological kids favored over the adoptees of color?) – more agreements about kids in general? . . .
Before moving on to the specifics of the JP kids – more agreements about kids in general?
The reason I bring up the points below is sometimes we have an idealized picture of what kids are like, but being parents (and in my former work) we know that’s not true. And same with the JP kids – they’re not perfect little angels, no matter how we sentimentalize them. They are little humans and will get into conflicts like everyone else. They’ll be affected by society like everyone else.
Are we agreed that: children aren’t born empty vessels, are born with emotions, are taught to hate specifics (race, nationality, gender, religion, etc.) by their family & society, have both good/mischief/bad inside them, can be capable of being mean & cruel as well as kind & tender, that what children become is a combination of nature (genetics) and nurture, parents/grandparents/family, teachers/coaches/religious leaders & other mentors play the most important part in shaping a person’s personality & values? As kids & siblings, it’s natural for them to fight – they can fight like cats and dogs, but when an outsider tries messing with them, they’ll band together against the outsider?
If not handled well, sibling issues (who was loved best, who stuck in certain roles) last into adulthood until worked out. Sibling rivalry and family dynamics have been the stuff of mythology, the Bible, great literature throughout all time, plays, movies, etc.
Ligaya, I am looking forward to reading the rest of your thoughts (you said that this is not a complete post) and to discuss them. I am fascinated by psichology and I see that you’ve been in this field for a long time. Maybe because you’ve seen a lot of different situations, you see more in-depth than the rest of us. I think I just see it as a family with kids. Both adopted and biological. Kids that if raised with same love and with equality (and I am sure that this is the Jolie-Pitt’s case) should develop normally and with no resentment towards any member of their family. I remember Angelina saying that when the kids fight she comes in and says “I don’t care who started it, I’m here to finish it”. That is being a smart parent and not thinking (and feeling) anymore that one is adopted and the other one biological. So I think that no matter what the media writes or says, the JP kids – and all the kids that are raised like that – will never ever think “I am adopted and Shi is their own blood” because they won’t feel it. An maybe, sometimes, not even realizing it. Again, this is just my opinion. Maybe I am wrong. I have never been in that situation or seen situations like that so i know it for sure.
UNDER MOD:
JoliePittFan, Mary Ann, and Lara – your discussion got me thinking again and here are my thoughts. It’s just a start, not complete. Lara, I scanned your 10/22 and 10/25 comments, and need to read them more carefully. . .
JoliePittFan, Mary Ann, and Lara – your discussion got me thinking again and here are my thoughts. It’s just a start, not complete. Lara, I scanned your 10/22 and 10/25 comments, and need to read them more carefully.
Intro:
• This isn’t about hating Shiloh, Vivienne & Knox. Just like everyone else, I automatically coo & smile when I see Shiloh’s pic, and I love all babies. I don’t know how much of it is being attracted to all baby mammals (puppies, kittens, cubs), to ‘naturally’/genetically preferring blonde/blue-eyed humans, social conditioning, and any combination of the above.
• Of course, the HUGE factor for us JP fans is that SVK are the biological offspring of Angelina and Brad. Even non-fans are fascinated at the genetic combination of the World’s Sexiest & Most Beautiful Woman and World’s Sexiest Man.
• Sibling rivalry is always an issue. Adoption on top of that is more than twice as hard. Add race and – it’s four or more times as hard. For now, for a simpler discussion, I’ll just focus on the adoption part.
Agreed:
• Angelina and Brad love and treat all their children equally.
• We want the best for all the children and the whole family.
After that, we have different opinions of what things have happened and how to interpret them.
I want to explain how I come to my opinions – not that my opinions should count more than other opinions but to show that I didn’t just make them up out of thin air (not saying that others do) and I’ve thought them out carefully – as I’m sure everybody else has too.
I have 40 friends and family members who are adoptive parents and adoptees. I also worked in the mental health field for 30 years. I worked with all sources of configurations of families – traditional nuclear, blended, single head of household, biological/step/adoptees etc. My personal and work experiences shaped my opinions.
We agree about so many things. Maybe we could share examples of what concerns us, and we could all discuss them and come to a common understanding – if not total agreement.
http://cityrag.blogs.com/main/2007/08/maddox-jolie-pi.html
The main focus of this article is Mad. Pax is barely mentioned in brackets and Zee is not mentioned at all. Should we say that Mad gets preferential treatment? IMO it’s just a question of circumstance. Like that day when Angie took the kids for a walk in New Orleans (I think). She was pregnant with the twins and wearing that long blue dress. At one point Shi probably fell and hurt her knee because we see her crying and she has a red mark on her knee. So inside the article we read that Angie took the kids for walk, she bought them cheetos and so on but it is also mentioned that Shi fell and hurt her knee. So that was a thing that caught the media’s attention. It just happened to be Shi. If Zahara would have fell and hurt her knee, they would have written about her. Another example is a more recent one. They were on the airport, back to Nice, Angie was taking Pax, Zee and Shiloh to the car and, out of the blue, Shi tried to let go her mother’s hand and go towards something. The article said that while Angie was taking the kids to the car, Shiloh tried to escape but fortunately her mama was faster than her. So my point is that when a kid does smth, they write about it. Of course, there are one or two magazines that may give Shiloh preferential treatment. But there are also articles, like the one above that make Mad the center of attention. This is too little compared to the rest. I do not think that we can make it so general as to say that the media favorizez one child over another. And after all, is the yougest baby in any family that gets most of the attention, isn’t it? :)) Babies are so cute and it’s like they invite you to cuddle them. People tend to turn most of their attention towards them. I think that this is another reason for which Shiloh may sometimes be the only one mentioned. She is at an age when she does all sort of funny things, so inocently unaware of the things around her. Her older brothers have already been through those stages and they are now a bit older and somehow more capable to control themselves around the cameras. Just wait until Brad and Angir take Knox and Viv out. I bet that the twins will be the center of attention then. :P
JoliePittFanatic, thank you – I agree with both your posts. Lara & Mary Ann, I partially agree and partially don’t agree. I’ll post my thoughts tomorrow when I hope I can express myself as clearly as I can.
The readers who’ve been with Pittwatch for a while, like Mary Ann, probably know I’ve been singing JoliePittFanatic’s song for a long time.
Lara- Maybe you’re right, and the media doesn’t really give Shi preferential treatment. Here is an example of what I was referring to, though, just in case you misunderstood or didn’t quite know what I meant:
Right after Knox and Viv were born, when all the tabs (plus PEOPLE, which I don’t consider to be a tab) were running the story about their births, US Weekly mentioned that all four of the older kids came to visit Angie in the hospital after the birth of the twins and they each gave her a flower.
Star ran the same story…But they left Mad, Pax, and Zee out of it. They only mentioned Shiloh.
Lara, well written and all so very true. I believe that these 6 children get so much love from their parents that when they are old enough to read and understand they will realize it is not true. Madd and Zee already give the evil eye when they see the paps, Shiloh she happily waves. As she gets older she might change. Brad and Angie love all their children equally.
joliepittfanatic, I agree with you that it may be disturbing for a child to always be referred as the adopted one. But I hope that Mad, Zee and Pax will be smart enough to know that this was just a term in the media. And I also think that, like their parents make no difference now between them and probably they don’t even realize anymore that they have adopted and not conceived them, the same thing will happen to the kids. They will not even bother to think about the subject if they see it in the press. I hope. On the other hand, I have to disagree about the fact that Shiloh gets preferential treatment. Whenever Brad and Angie go out with Shi, they write about her. When they go out with Pax and Zee or with Mad, they write about them and so on. So the news is equal with the no of appearances, in my view. Remember when they went to the mountains? The predominant news was about Brad and the boys sleighing and Brad filming them. But there were also news about the boys skiing or something, about the fact that Brad, Angie and Zee were cheering them form the side, or about Brad taking Shi for a slide also. So what I see here is equality. They were all involved. But if one of their children is to be disturbed about smth in the media is precisely Shiloh. I will never forget, as long as I live, those days when news about Angie not loving Shiloh, not wanting to rock her to sleep, telling Brad to quiet her because she is disturbing the other kids and so on kept coming. I have never been so furious about a Jolie-Pitt news till then or since. I could not believe how somebody who called himself a human being could write that, not knowing if it is true but knowing that, one day, that child will probably read that crap from which he ate his loaf of bread that day. In Angie’s place, I would have sued them and take them the very last penny (which I would have donated to charity, of course :)) ). But Angie, being smarter than me:P managed to restrain her fury and realize that is useless to fight with “nobody”. And I bet that Shi, being loved as I know she is by both of her parents, will have the laugh of her life if she will some day read those lines.
Hello lovely pittwatchers… always so nice to see how well folk manage comments intended to hurt.
I always find it funny when people think that you can control your feelings. If you fall for someone you may choose to act on it or not, but you can’t switch off love. In my country of origin divorce was illegal until relatively recently. So much unhappiness, misery and domestic abuse was caused.
I feel happy that Brad’s first wife is now free to find the true love that she deserves. Fingers crossed for her.
Went to dinner at my younger sons home last night and he started busting me about my interest in the Jolie-Pitts. This is a friendly thing that goes on all the time because my daughter-in-law sees no gray area when it comes to cheating. Any way Rick said to me “so Mom how long do you think that relationship is going to last?” I said “a long time” and they just kind of look at each other like I am nuts. Later on they brought up Paul Newman and how wonderful a man he was. So I said to them “well that was a scandal in my day because Paul was married with children and he feel in love with Joanne. They married and had a lasting relationship of 50 years. They both were shocked to hear this. I believe that everyone should make a good attempt on keeping a marriage together, but when it comes to the point that you are really are unhappy a divorce is okay. Brad and Jen had no children and it has come out that they were not happy for a long time.
isacutie to Karli – Very nicely stated and all so true.
I think Mary Anne and isacutie said it best. isacutie, you’re right. A judge signed off on Brad and Jen’s divorce in early to mid August. The October announcement was basically just a formality having to do with the mandatory California waiting period for divorces (as I understand it, the judge signed off on the divorce in August, but they had to wait until October for the state of California to legally recognize them as a divorced couple).
By my Math, the earliest Shiloh could have been concieved was late August, and it’s more likely that she was concieved in early Sepetember. It is even possible that she was concieved later in Sepetember, as I’ve heard that Shi was due in early June (June 4 or something like that), and given Angie had a scheduled C-section due to Shi being breech (scheduled C-sections are usually performed one to two weeks before the due date to try to prevent the mother from going into labor), I tend to believe it.
Anyway, Shi was almost certainly concieved AFTER the judge had signed off on the divorce. :)
As far as the kids reading the tabs…I do hope they don’t, especially Mad, Pax, and Zee Zee, considering the way the tabs treat them compared to Shi, Knox, and Viv (the tabs always have to mention that the older three are adopted, and have sometimes left them out of stories and make it sound like it was just Shi who did whatever, was seen wherever, said whatever, etc.).
Finally, as far as comment moderation…I’m GLAD the comments are moderated here. I have literally had to stop reading the comments on Jolie-Pitt sites that don’t moderate their comments because most of the comments are so nasty.
Expressing your opinion is fine, as long as you do it respectfully, but some of the comments I’ve seen out there are downright flames! I also want to point out that, if you want to bash Angie and/or Brad, there are plenty of other sites where you can do that!
Tina/Lara, just to add to your posts. I think some of the people are just being picky, with some even pointing out that Shiloh who was born in May and is supposed to be full-term cannot have been conceived after October, which is when Brad’s divorce became final, or it means she must have been conceived roundabout August or September, which is when Brad was technically still married. But if I recall correctly, by August/September Brad and Jennnifer already had finalized betweeen themselves the divorce proceedings, only that the judge (or whoever was the arbiter) said that the proceedings would only be declared final in October. Certainly, by the time Shiloh was conceived, the whole world know that Brad was already divorcing, if not yet technically divorced.
But as usual, tabloid media and those who nitpick the JPs have to find a way to twist things around to the negative. It’s sad but they will always be there and as I always say, it’s a good thing that Brad and Angie don’t pay attention. I just hope that their kids will be able to do the same when they are old enough, especially since many of things said about their parents, and sometimes about them too, are very mean. But I think both Brad and Angie are doing their best to educate the kids so I think they’ll be fine.
And just a note to Karli, like everyone said, most of us, if not all of us, get moderated at times. Those with more important posts tell Sherry they’re under moderation so at least Sherry knows and let the post through, or some just wait until their posts finally go through. I’m sorry you think the way you do, but there are more than 15 of us reading this blog regularly. Then again, please remember that this is a fan site, so if most of us agree on things, and most of us have positive things to say about the JPs, that’s probably because we are fans. It’s unfair of you to say Sherry only posts those comments from fans because the truth is, some of the comments of some posters here have led to very lengthy and interesting discussions. There has even been instances of tension between posters, but once things were explained, for the most part, we all understand what led to the tension and let it pass.
Thanks, Lara! Do you know that you are one of the very few whom I’ve read that actually think this? I mean I tried reading those 900 something comments and boy I’m so happy that I found somebody else who agrees with me! The funniest thing is AOL labels it as “Angelina Jolie Walks Thin Line Between Innocence and Adultery.” Heres’s the weblink:http://www.popeater.com/movies/article/angelina-jolie-walks-thin-line-between/215853
Maybe we could actually throw the idea out there of how we really interpret this because man, it’s really outrageous how they’ve turn this whole thing around. Thanks again Lara for the support! And as many of you say, “God bless the Joile-Pitts!”
I’m smart! I’m having more babies! I’m smart! I’m with Brad Pitt! I care! I want my privacy! Here’s some pics of ME!!! I’m smart! Enough already.
Karli, I am proud to be one of the regulars here at Pittwatch. What I do not understand is if you feel that this is a pathetic site why would you waste your time commenting at all? We all try real hard here to offer our opinions in a polite manner. None of us like to go into moderation because we all feel we have something important to say and we hate to wait. But wait we must. I myself do not go into moderation very often because as I am aging I find myself using simple words because the big words do not come as easily as they use to. Please we welcome everyone here but we must be patient and wait for our posts to come out of moderation. Other wise this would become like other sites where people write down right nasty stuff.
P.S. You might want to read Sherry’s “PittWatch Comment Policy” in the “Pages” box right under the “Recent Comments” box in the column to the right.
You’re right about one thing, not every post that comes in is posted – the policy explains why. Don’t know about you but about 75% of the blogs I’ve posted in are moderated.
Karli, there’s a simple, objective way to check if you’re being moderated unfairly more than anyone else. Whenever I’m moderated, I post a following comment “UNDER MOD:” with my topic – to signal the community that I want to participate in the conversation but I’m under moderation.
If you review each thread and count how many ‘”UNDER MOD” I’ve posted, I think you’ll find that I’m #1 when it comes to being moderated. It’s gotten so that I’m surprised when I’m not moderated.
I suggest you calm down. We don’t want to lose you as a reader if and when you have a stroke. Has it crossed your mind that the overwhelmingly positive posts here are because that’s what the majority of us genuinely feel – and not Sherry sitting at her computer 24/7 censoring you?
IMO, your rant about Sherry & moderation is exaggerated – just like your comment about the JPs flaunting the kids for publicity. Hey, I’m not asking you to change your opinion, only to recognize that others have opinions different from you – and that we’re not wrong just because we don’t agree with you.
Live and let live. And if you want more diversity in who posts, then post away – no one’s stopping you. You can be as prolific as you want.