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Just a personal note: as some of you know, the regular writer of this blog, Arieanna, is on maternity leave, which is why me and Jeanne Dupuis have been filling in for her. You’ll be happy to know that Arieanna and her husband welcomed their baby boy into the world late last night! Please feel free to send well-wishes to the new momma in this comment thread!
Now, back to regularly scheduled Gilmore Girls News. Commenter Celine pointed out that not only did Rory and Lorelai Gilmore get voted by EW readers as two castmates with the most chemistry, but Luke Danes was also voted as a TV Character EW readers would most like to date!
The list of men was in no particular order. Reasons he’s be great to date: he cooks, he let Lorelai shop for him, and as we saw in the episode “Forgiveness & Stuff” he is there when times are tough.
Would you date Luke? Or are you more of a Christopher fan? Or.. a Max fan?
Image: TheWB.com
312 days ago
I have to agree with Marie here. Rachel, Nicole, Lorelai. Not a good pattern. With all due respect to Mac, I totally don’t see how Luke gets less of the blame for what happened with Rachel and Nicole.
What did Nicole do that was so wrong? She only cheated after Luke stopped living with her, stopped living at their house, stopped just being nice to her. She clearly loved him to keep trying and trying. Wanting Rachel to give up her career? And Anna’s description, pre-Lorelai, was of a pretty scary guy.
@ Mac, if you like Luke, that totally explains not seeing the pattern. “Like” can be blind too. :) I just know if I treated a date (or spouse) like that, I’d be kicked to the curb.
@Isha, with Lauren and Scott, it might not have been all Scott’s fault if the producers had him dress that way and never shave. Ouuuch! As a gay guy, I have to say I’ve had my face torn up with that kind of stubble. Not fun. Come on, man, that can hurt!
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312 days ago
Thanks for your post Marie, I appreciate you taking the time to respond so thoughfully:)
@Josh, hey did someone say they didnt like Luke’s stubble? wasn’t me anyways, i am quite the stubble fan on guys – nice and manly.
I am not too fussed about Luke’s previous r/ships cos I’m not sure we got a real look at any of them. I do think Luke had some relationship issues based on the detail we saw in his r/ship with lor – i was so shocked the first time they broke up over that stupid stuff chris said at the wedding, nothing to do with them at all really – and this so soon after saying he was all in! so in a way i think the writing changed a guy who was more attractive the first few seasons before they got together, then kind of stretched credibility with how he behaved with someone he supposedly loved. i guess we should all write a tv series ourselves before judging too harshly tho!
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312 days ago
Congratulations. Wonderful news. So happy for everyone.
Keep up the good work on the blog ladies you are doing a great job. And oh yeah, totally date Luke Danes. No question there.
I would pass on Max or Jason.
As for Chris, I didn’t like him with Lorelai because it interferred with me wanting Luke and Lorelai together but Chris would surely be fun to date too.
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312 days ago
Okay, so I read through all the previous comments and here are my thoughts:
First off (as a disclaimer): Lorelai’s the best character on this show by far and anything stated below does not change that in my opinion.
a) Luke is definitely one of the most likable characters on the show. Yes, he’s a very flawed character (which wasn’t really ever hidden from the audience or, for that matter, Lorelai). I mean, he’s gruff, insensitive, emotionally distant on a good day, stubborn, and, he said it himself, bad at relationships. That being said, he’s also kind to a fault, loyal to family and friends, humble until provoked (such as when Jess mocked his diner before getting kicked out for good), looked out for Rory no matter what crap Lorelai was pulling that particular day, and brought out the best in Lorelai.
b) All of Luke’s relationships missteps were half his fault. For instance, Luke loved Stars Hollow too much and was too stubborn to move and obviously (because who wouldn’t) wanted Rachel to live there with him. That being said, she didn’t have to leave so abruptly and without a proper good-bye the first time. So, clearly they weren’t right for each other. With Nicole, he was clearly trying to get over Lorelai and sure he tried but his heart wasn’t really in it. He probably stayed with her out of a lack of other options honestly which is probably unhealthy. But did she have to cheat on him? No. As for yelling at her: she yelled back. Oh, and he yells at everybody. What’s wrong with yelling? As for Anna, she seemed bitter and the whole backstory was a little flimsy so I have no comment on that one.
As for Lorelai: Yes, he was distant, stubborn, and all of the above with her as well. But, frankly, she never stated that she was all that unhappy until her epic ultimatum and subsequent overreaction (“Oh hi, Chris. Wanna do it?”). Had he known just how unhappy she was, prior evidence shows he would have at least done something differently. Was it still gonna blow up? Who knows.
c) More on the Lorelai-Luke connection: Okay, sure, it’s a little story book but not completely. Story book would be Lorelai being swept off her feet by a dashing, sophisticated guy who could make all her dreams come true with little or no effort. Yeah, that’s not really Luke. He’s that rough and kind of dirty guy that you’re only really going to like if you look beyond the surface. I mean, come on, she’s the owner of a very successful inn by the end of the series and he’s still running that diner. Yes, the notion of her “not noticing what was right in front of her” is very cliche’ but I’ll let it slide because, honestly, he was the only guy Lorelai dated that clicked beyond a surface connection and the ONLY one where she really felt like she lost something when it ended.
Oh, and as a side note: their individual issues (which are actually strikingly similar come to think of it) were ALWAYS present in their relationship. Think about it. Luke was distant in Season 5 and hid things and so did Lorelai. But they worked through it like normal people. The second half of Season 6, however, these problems all of a sudden became too much to handle and they both just crumpled. Yeah, my personal theory is that ASP was thinking “Fine. If I’m getting fired then this show is going DOWN.”
d) As for the other guys: You all might hate me but I prefer Digger to either Max, Chris, or Alex. He was funny, quirky, off-center and could actually keep up with Lorelai. Max was well-read and all that but he was a little boring for Lorelai. Chris, while he could keep up, was weak from the beginning (none of this “But he got sooo much worse as the series went!” stuff). And the whining: acting like fate was the only reason he never got together with Lorelai. Yeah, couldn’t have been because she didn’t want to be with you or anything. And Alex…oh wait, he’s gone already.
That’s about it. Sorry it’s long and with probably a multitude of errors.
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312 days ago
Thank you for the kind words everybody.
To Ryan, I think you make many great points in defense of Luke, but a few of them prompted some response.
What’s wrong with yelling? A lot. I’ve never known any therapist or relationship counselor who has ever said that the amount of yelling Luke did is wise. In fact, the emotional toll it usually takes is high. As someone who processes divorces every year, I’ve never seen couples who last when they scream like Luke Danes does. And if anyone considers that kind of yelling something everyone should put up with in relationships, I wish them well and would not be surprised if it led to relationship failure.
Yelling can certainly be fine when it’s justified. While Luke has a loving side with Rory and Jess and Lorelai the friend, his rage is constant, unprovoked, and often extremely hostile and hurtful, and his pattern of neglecting women after courting them is undeniable. As Isha says, blowing up at Lorelai for Christopher’s behavior was just one example. And he did it over and over. And Nicole certainly yelled back, but clearly out of justified frustration over Luke’s marriage to her when he was not committed to her, as Josh says. It’s easy to blame her for cheating, but in most relationships, as in that one, it’s a symptom, not a cause of the relationship problem. Nicole tried and tried and was, from what I saw, a model of patience until she broke.
As for your feelings about her relationship with Christopher and especially continuing your theory about the Palladinos, from everything I’ve read, the theory about the end of Season 6 is just not borne out by the facts. It comes from frustration with the Palladinos and upset over the fairy tale ending not happening but the date on the leaks of that storyline in columns came weeks before the network’s final decision on the Palladinos contract. The Palladinos have denied and on this I believe them.
It’s more plausible to me that Lauren Graham pushed for it to happen because of concerns about what life with Luke Danes would have been like. Lauren Graham, who is probably closer to the character than anyone, was very disturbed about the effect the Luke relationship had on her character. You can see it in Season 5 as this independent became more and more submissive, beaten down by someone constantly yelling at her.
And if you are extremely fond of Luke, which you are and certainly have a right to be, you’re of course going to look past a lot in the show and see it as skewed toward Luke (who was originally written to be a woman and not designed to be Lorelai’s love interest). By my count (before Season 7), Lorelai said that she loved someone only twice. She told Rory she would always love Christopher, and she said it about Luke (and yelled it at him). And she specifically told Christopher she DID want him (“It Should’ve Been Lorelai”) and had been waiting for him for her whole life into Season 2. To say “she didn’t want to be with [him] or anything” is contrary to the text, the character’s own words and the overall pattern of her behavior. You have to really inject your own fantasy into the story to explain away six seasons of behavior.
As Lauren Graham has said in interviews about the movie idea, the reason she does not see it in part is that people who break up more than once do not end up together, or end up together well. And she’s right based on my experience. It is beyond storybook to think it does happen. And has been said somewhere else, look at the films Amy Palladino has venerated in the series. The Way We Were. Casablanca. Broadcast News. All films where people with difficulty do not end up together, not Hollywood cliche.
At the same time, to say that Lorelai slept with Christopher without regard for his feelings or Luke’s would be a shocking blow to her character, reducing her to someone cruel to both. As others have said, it’s hard to believe Luke’s postponement was enough to push her over the edge. It seems to me it was her own knowledge that she proposed to him when she was angry about Rory, her doubts about their conflict, and her mixed feelings for Christopher that led her where it did.
It may just be my own belief, but rather than hating Christopher irrationally, I think it’s entirely possible she loved them both, as the Lorelai the character actually said she did. She broke off two engagements for him, calling him at her bachelorette party and sleeping with him knowing he considered her his soulmate. She went back to Christopher too often and flirted with him and tried to establish a relationship without sleeping with him to just want him for sex.
Do I think the relationship would Christopher or Luke would have lasted? I doubt it. But her person was clearly affected by Luke’s behavior all the way back to Season 5, as it affected Rachel and Nicole in deeply devastating ways.
And I know no woman, or man, who loves to be yelled at the way she was.
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312 days ago
Because we feel we actually get to know and like Lorelai, Rory, and Luke in the first three seasons when the storylines were a little simpler, more uplifting, and tightly written, we tend to give them more leeway and overlook their episodes of rediculously aberant behavior over the last 4 seasons and not hold them responsible for their actions in the same way that the rest of the characters are routinely cross-examined.
These episodes of behavior are explained as something along the lines of blame shifting to ASP or the writers or some other lame extenuating circumstance. In real life of course no matter how much we like them, we would never put up with all the nonsense they produce and would force them to wake up or eventually walk away from them because the cons so outweigh the pros. Thankfully they are only characters so we can selectively enjoy parts of the story as a guilty pleasure and discount the parts we do not like or choose to disbelieve!!
Actually when you think of most of the guys who passed through the girls lives, they generally started out somewhat positive and were degraded by the plotline over time, sort of the inverse of the usual fairy tale where the princess kisses the toad to generate a prince. In GG the wanna-be princes slowly were devolved into toads. Thus, it is a bit amazing to me that any of the guys were considered dateable by the end of the series. Nothing like a little selective denial to make the world go round.
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310 days ago
luke Danes as rough around the edges he may be, he is a good person, who loves with all his heart and is loyal. He was there for Lorelai in some of the toughest times ( and before anyone springs that season six crap up, i am not ignoring it, but Luke was doing what HE thought was right, he saw Chris stay out of Rory’s life and in a way i guess he might be proving to lorelai as well that he was not that, a deadbeat.)When Lorelai’s dad was sick the first and 2nd time he was there to help even though he was not asked. He wasn’t together with Lorelai the second time but did alot more than her husband.
anyways thats my 2 cents.
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305 days ago
belated Congrats Arieanna, hope you and the baby are doing well!
Luke Danes always struck me as a person that did not know how to deal with his emotions in a mature way. I feel like he had this idea of what a man should be which was emotionally void. I think he yelled at most of the people in his life because he does not know how to communicate his feelings in a effective manner. With Rachel, didn’t they say in the Bangles episode that she broke his heart? several times? when someone does that to you doesn’t that leave some kind of lasting damage to your psyche? I feel like that may have made him more withdrawn and introvert in terms of his feelings as a way of self-preservation. The Nicole thing to me was basically the writers way of having Luke move on from Lorelai because its not natural to pine for someone for so long “hoping that they will fall in your arms and notice you” like Jess remarked-it was a failed attempt because clearly like someone else said, his heart wasn’t in it.
I feel like no matter what, he has always been unconditionally in love with Lorelai regardless of their relationship status. My only fault with him is like one of the other commenters had said, they gave his character contradictions that were not even expressed in the first couple of seasons only to put him on the same level as Lorelai. In addition, he didn’t handle things well at all with Lorelai and I think a lot of that could do with the fact that he had never been in a relatively speaking good relationship that plus his own personal flaws like his decision-making skills led to its downfall. However, whose fault was it that Lorelai didn’t speak up about having to take the backseat to April? Lorelai. I think if she felt so strongly being reserved wasn’t the answer. clearly. especially with someone as thick-headed as Luke sometimes was.
If I had to pick a relationship between all those guys I couldn’t. They all had good points but they also had major flaws, imo, none of them seem good enough for her. However, i will admit that her chemistry with Christopher was undeniable but that doesn’t always lead to a stable happy relationship.
On an unrelated note: when choosing the best relationship for Rory sadly, I’m pretty sure no one would look as closely at her relationships because the consensus on this board seems to be for Jess.
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