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In ‘Ballrooms and Biscotti‘, Lorelai and Rory are back from their backpacking trip to Europe. They have presents for absolutely everyone in their lives… except Luke. Lorelai said “we kept putting it off and putting it off,” with Rory saying “we couldn’t find anything good enough.” Why were they so conscious about this gift in particular? Why did it matter that this gift be big? And, if it was so important, how could they forget it?
Lorelai says they should have gotten Luke the bullfighter’s uniform, a gift much more substantial than the Eiffel Tower they gave to Emily. So, does this mean they thought Luke’s gift was more important than Emily’s? Is this a clue to the changing dynamics in the relationship Luke plays in the lives of Rory & Lorelai, or just an indication of the importance of his friendship?
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270 days ago
They also forgot a gift for Kirk, if I recall, not just Luke. In many respects, that is even more unflattering.
This is an episode full of absurdities, the first signs that the show was throwing logic out the window, although as mcityrk said recently, arguably that applied to the loss of Jess as well (now that I think about it, isn’t it odd that the school stopped telling Luke about something so important as Jess’ failure?).
The whole final conflict between Lorelai and Emily is set up by Rory not telling Emily why Lorelai is not there — because SHE got the date wrong and they were left scrambling to get things for Rory’s school. Instead, she tells Emily that Lorelai had errands to run, making Emily feel insulted. Lorelai comes back and again only says “I couldn’t!” when asked to explain why she couldn’t come.
I think we’re supposed to laugh it off as the babble of the Gilmore Girls.
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270 days ago
I think it was a funny bit that they forgot Luke’s present. It was cute to see that they didn’t want to give him just anything. And then Lorelai tries really very hard to make up for it.
Most of all the fact that they are both concerned about forgetting shows how much Luke is important in their lives.
Of course the most hilarious scene is when Luke confesses to Lorelai that he got married: You got married? Is that legal? :-)
Marie, I never understood either why Rory didn’t just tell Emily that Lorelai wasn’t there for very good reasons… Sometimes, they were very complicated…
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270 days ago
I think Emily is the type of person who would have been disappointed regardless, so why bother giving all the details just to go through more not-so-subtle comments from her?
And I know Stars Hollow High would be a completely different school than mine was, more caring to how the students were doing, but I flaked a lot in high school. I could identify with Jess some. I didn’t want to be there so I wasn’t a lot of the time. The school never contacted my mom…
Someone was saying on another thread how Lorelai made the conflict between her and her parents a bigger deal than it probably ever was but I have to disagree with that. If you take out the fiction factor, there’s a lot of stuff we never saw while she was growing up and I think that’s why they had Rory living in the pool house for a while, to give us a taste of what Lorelai might have gone through.
And think, the way Emily acted with Rory as an older, you’d think wiser, woman doing it the second time around… how would this same woman have acted the first go-round with no previous parenting experience..? So I think Lorelai’s fears and conflicts are founded.
As for the gift, I totally believe they couldn’t find anything good enough. I’m the same way. I always look for gifts that are perfect for the person, not cheap but reasonable – too high of a price is a factor as well. I have to budget just to make a trip happen so I have to watch spending in order to pay for the biggies; hotels, gas, food, entrance fees for amusements and I want to shop and have a good time myself…
Whatever shop I’m in I’m looking for gifts on a person by person basis, if I find something perfect, great, if not I keep looking until I do. If I can’t find anything I end up grabbing something I’m not too happy with. I think Lorelai and Rory would be the same way, only they didn’t grab an “okay, lets just get this” item because Luke is very important to them.
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270 days ago
Both Lor and Rory have always loved Luke. For a long time Lor loved him as a friend, and Rory as a male Father figure. I know what they mean by not finding anything special enough for him. It is easy to buy random gifts for the random towns people, because they are just friendly friends in their lives. It is hard to buy for people in their lives they actually truly love, like Luke. No trite gift will cut it in their minds.
The fact that they didn’t make it a priority to find the perfect gift and ended up forgetting all together, is just their selfish side coming out. Lor is VERY selfish, and she forgets to pay the proper attention to people other than herself. I don’t think they do this to be ugly, but it does happen. Lor passed that along to Rory, sadly.
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270 days ago
Arieanna, I think you’re reading way too much into the one line about wanting to get Luke something he’d like (he’s a curmudgeon, you know, and very hard to please). They also forgot the gift after all, and as Marie said, the only other person they forgot was Kirk. OUCH. And Luke didn’t get them anything either.
I also agree this episode is one contrivance after another. Rory, the listmaker, who gives Babette an itinerary (and memorizes the one at Yale next episode) gets the most important date of school wrong, setting up the whole episode’s lousy premise. Okay, we’ll allow Rory a mistake, she’s human, even though this is a pretty big one for someone like her (and even Emily seems to know the right date at the end of the show).
And then the goofiness with the gifts, Rory the listmaker forgets Luke? And then, as Mac and Marie say, there’s this forced argument over the dinner.
@ThatHappened, you can’t say “take the fiction out of the show” — it is fiction, and that’s the show’s reality. And that reality is that Emily is not the demon people make her out to be, especially on this issue. Look at the history.
* In the very first episode, Emily brags about Lorelai to Richard. When Lorelai gets upset at dinner, it’s Emily goes into the kitchen and tries to console her. It’s only when Lorelai blows up at her that Emily gets upset (and if you watch closely, Kelly Bishop is in tears, it’s beautiful to watch), and she ultimately ends the argument calmly, albeit with a telling dig at Lorelai’s behavior.
* In Season 3, Lorelai skips several weeks of dinners after the blow up at Yale. Emily comes to see her, not yelling, and while she is completely firm on demanding she show up per their deal, she’s also completely calm. She doesn’t raise her voice. She tries to build a bridge.
* Even when Lorelai throws an insane fit in front of Emily’s guests at Thanksgiving, Emily keeps her cool. She even goes outside and tries to console Lorelai. She speaks the truth: “You hate us that much.” It’s hard to hear and dramatic, but it’s said sadly and calmly, and it’s not entirely wrong.
It’s only when Lorelai tries to pay Emily off and threatens to end the one trick she had to get Lorelai back to the house that Emily behaves badly over her not coming to dinner … proving she’s got issues too, and it’s probably where Lorelai gets the behavior, but it’s not her just being difficult. She’s still wounded that Lorelai ran away (again something that was probably extreme as a response).
And look how Emily reacted to Rory being absent from dinner:
* In Season 2, Rory doesn’t come to dinner when she breaks her arm. Emily, thinking she’s sick, is perfectly reasonable (and uspet only later when she finds out the truth).
* That same season, Rory doesn’t come to dinner when Sherry first arrives, and again, Emily is perfectly calm until she finds out why, that Sherry is dating Christopher. The fact that she’s not there is something she accepts on its own terms.
* In Season 3, Rory skips dinner to go be with Sherry when Gigi is born, and again, Emily is calm. She doesn’t agree at the end when Lorelai runs out to be with her, but there’s no drama. Emily gives her opinion and that’s that. She and Lorelai get along fine.
If someone identifies with Lorelai and Jess — as Lorelai describes it, “really angry” and with a “chip on the shoulder”, sure it’s going to seem that Lorelai is always right and Emily is always wrong. But look at what the Palladinos did to those two characters — they ended up broken up, losing the people they claimed to love.
Emily is not perfect, but this episode is just ridiculous. All Rory had to say was “Grandma, I’m so sorry, I screwed up the dates and Mom is running around trying to get my things so I could be there.” All Lorelai had to do was call and say why she wasn’t going to show up. Emily wants to be treated with courtesy and respect. And the show’s reality proves that Emily can be reasonable when she’s treated the way she should be treated.
It’s like Palladinos had only planned for three seasons and were just making stuff up to fill an episode, so this is what they made up — Rory forgets the date of orientation.the girls forget a gift for Luke, and Lorelai starts acting like a child again all season (it gets worse…)
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270 days ago
When I say, “take the fiction out” I don’t mean pretend it isn’t. I didn’t want to talk about the storylines and characters as if they were real life people like some fangirl who is way too obsessed, even though I am, lol.
But there are a lot of gaps, big ones. It would take a whole other 7 seasons to show all the important stuff we missed in the lives of these people and then some. But it *is* fiction and therefore not possible. Which was my original point.
I do not think Emily is a demon. I think she’s a complicated woman who can react badly to situations and be unreasonable at times. Not to mention all the rude comments she makes. She has a meanstreak about her. I am actually the only person in my group of family/friends who defends Emily, everybody else I have ever watched the show with always end up yelling “bitch” at the tv, lol.
I love that Lorelai is “selfish” as everyone has been pointing out a lot lately, because you know what? She wouldn’t have the life she has if she wasn’t. You have to really want something for yourself in order to go out and make it happen. That’s a good selfish imo.
But I’m sure a lot of you think she’s the bad kind of selfish which I just don’t see. I mean, yes, she has her moments, like *everybody* but nothing so bad as to sabotage someone elses lovelife. *coughEmily* and I don’t even wanna hear how she did it with the best intentions, that’s bs. She didn’t think Luke was good enough, plain and simple, which is just hateful. She could obviously see that Lorelai was happy with him but still did what she did.
And when Lorelai hurts someone’s feelings she always makes up for it which makes her a good person in my book. She is my dreamgirl. I want to be like her, I identify with her, she’s gorgeous and a great catch.
Oh and I’m looking at the history too, not just standing up for her cause she’s my fave.
I saw some examples of Emily’s good behavior, so I’ll add some of the bad:
S1
Emily gives in but initially refuses to go to her own grandaughters preplanned bday party. We do see a touching moment upstairs though.
Lorelai learns some bad behavior from Emily, who learned bad behavior from Lorelai the 1st. Yes that’s family, but even with all I’ve put up with I manage to not do the same to my nieces and nephews. Lorelai tries hard and when she fails she fixes it. How about Emily? She only does a percentage of the times. And Trix only did once when Em pointed out she had a fella.
Emily always has a problem with who Lorelai is dating, unless its her choice of who the man is.
S2
We start to see more secrets. It says a lot when someone doesn’t want to share good news becuase they’re afraid of the happiness being ruined *the engagements, etc.* that feeling really, really sucks. Its highly depressing.
In one of my top 5 favorite episodes we have There’s the Rub where we see a weekend getaway. The switching of schedules and conflict… ah good stuff. Great writing imo. Lorelai has her problems with it all and they both end up really trying, its nice to see. But then Emily has to ruin a good thing and blame it on Lorelai. Really? And I love the robe stealing, lol.
S3
Emily immediately thinks Lorelai is the reason for the end of Lorelai & Christopher’s relationship before learning the truth. But we do see Emily stand up for her later when Chris is causing a scene and Lorelai is on the verge of breaking down.
The way she reacts when Lorelai pays her back. Yes, Lorelai could have waited for a better time, but would there really have been a better time? No, not really. Rory said she didn’t want the money back, but having it constantly hovering over your head is stressful and Lorelai follows through on her word. She shouldn’t be forced to attend dinner because of a loan anyway. Things would get better between them if they both knew they could get along and see each other becuase they wanted to and not always think its only because of the money. Its not fair to Lorelai to feel forced. And its not fair to Emily that she only gets to see Lorelai because she loans her money. If they would just move beyond that (like they finally do at the end of the series) they would have a healthier relationship. But Emily had to freak out over being paid back, even though it was the right thing for Lorelai to do. She should have waited till after her bday though…
And since the bulk was about the 1st 3 seasons and then things going all wacky, I’ll end my examples there.
The point though, is that they *both* make mistakes. Well, they *all* do, really, but it wouldn’t be a believable show if they didn’t.
I just don’t like reading all this bad stuff about Lorelai lately. And all the talk about how she blows things out of proportion, cause I strongly disagree. She’s overreacts like everyone does from time to time. Yet we see a lot of comments about how
Rory and Logan are the perfect match all the time even though he is the reason she completely changes who she is while with him.
I sometimes think its off balance here, but please don’t think I’m arguing by any means because of this huge run-on. I just enjoy reading it all and joining in.
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269 days ago
I’ve heard the ‘Rory sees Luke as a male father figure’ lots of times and I’m trying to figure out if that’s fanwanking or canon. I know Luke was certainly involved with her childhood (the caterpillar funeral, mashed potatoes while sick, etc.), but is their any indication that the relationship went anywhere beyond friend-of-Lorelai helping out Lorelai’s kid? Luke and Rory don’t have all that many bonding moments throughout the series and the few times I can recall her going to him on her own accord (aside from getting food obviously) have been for the sake of other relationships (after Jess left the first time in S2, after the mother-daughter split and LL engagement in S6).
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269 days ago
@ThatHappened
The issue in the thread was that in THIS episode, the conflict over Lorelai not coming to dinner could have been avoided. You said that no, “Emily is the type of person who would have been disappointed regardless”, if Lorelai didn’t come to dinner. And in example after example, I was trying to show you that was not true. Emily is not the person you’re portraying.
But it’s pretty telling that Lorelai fans (even though you say you’re not defending her because she’s your favorite) don’t “like reading bad stuff” about Lorelai.
I’m sorry, but it is beyond selfish and simple mistakes – not speaking to your daughter for six months? Breaking off an engagement to a guy then going back to flirting with him? Sleeping with another guy while you’re engaged to someone else? Rejecting the father of your child over and over and ragging on him about his business failure then telling him after he’s with someone else that she was waiting for him and sabotaged all her relationships? And her behavior in the season we’re discussing is beyond ridiculous, especially the way she treats Luke and Nicole.
You can’t say that she wouldn’t have had the life she had without being “selfish.” She could have left home when she was 18 and done all the things she did, but by leaving with more than a note, running away after Emily and Richard had supported her and not banished her. And as Emily says after the blowup over Lorelai paying her back, Emily tried to call and visit and Lorelai constantly blew her off. She cut them out her life and Rory’s life and let them know that she didn’t want them in hers. None of that had to happen, not for Rory’s sake.
Lorelai has a good side — and she could have found a home in Stars Hollow without the blowups and childish behavior.
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269 days ago
To bring this all back to the gift in Arieanna’s post, in light of recent comments, I think the thing that distresses me about it is that Lorelai in Season 1 seemed like a mature, witty charming woman with occasional childish acts (kissing Max in Rory’s school, climbing out the window) but otherwise was able to try to speak calmly to everyone. And in Season 2 and 3, she made so many strides forward in her relationship with Emily and Richard.
And then Season 4 happened. On the one hand, this is the season where Lorelai the business person takes huge steps. But the rest?
The season was set up with the backbacking trip to Europe in hostels which Lorelai jokingly knows is something kids do (she even jokes about this in this episode), but it’s almost as if the 18 years of raising Rory put her childhood on hold and she goes back to being 17 now that Rory isn’t around to force her to be mature.
To “ThatHappened”, I don’t think we all behave as Lorelai — some of us are too stoic, not as funny and not as charming, I’m sure — but I hope we also don’t overreact as Lorelai does. Or as Max rightly says “You need to think about someone other than yourself.”
This is Lorelai’s serious flaw. Her lectures to Christopher (and Rory) about him not being “ready for marriage” seem almost absurd after the behavior that follows.
And this behavior — The gift for Luke is important! Oh no, we forgot Luke! Let’s make up a gift! — just seems so silly. It’s like the writers worried that not having Lorelai and Rory together would be boring, so Lorelai would have to revert to being more childish as Rory grew up.
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269 days ago
@Josh
Yes, it is about this episode’s conflict, however you gave examples of some of Emily’s good behavior, so I thought I would list some bad, in order to show that she has her good moments, as well as her bad ones…
I think, yes, had Rory explained it to her, she would have reacted differently, I’m not denying that, but I do believe she would still be at least somewhat upset, or make a sly comment of some sort, that’s just her pattern of behavior, like Lorelai has a pattern of acting childish at times.
I don’t see how it’s solely me portraying Emily as the bad guy. Yes, I think she is sometimes, but the way you say it makes it seem like I hate her and *do* think she’s a demon, which I’ve already stated, I don’t think that she is.
I just know how difficult it is dealing with someone who has these characteristics, and therefore understand Lorelai’s reaction towards it. Like when Lorelai sits there, silent, having just heard something her mother or father has just said about her, like she’s not sitting right there and getting up and walking out… You can only be silent so many times before the timebomb goes off.
Its not just about hearing bad stuff about her, its that on this site in particular, a lot of fans have been kind of harsh towards her lately. Yes, she’s my favorite, no I don’t like seeing her criticized because she’s my favorite, but that’s life when you’re a fan of someone, and also if you’re a writer. You *have* to. And I’m open to that, everybody has flaws, characters in shows as well. That’s why there are always such heated debates, but just as I am defending Lorelai, you are defending Emily… So at least we have that in common, lol.
And about her not speaking to her daughter for six months, Rory screwed up. She knew it was wrong and did it anyway, knowing it was only hurting herself and her mom. That’s just life, people go through stuff like that all the time. I’m not speaking to my niece right now. Not since the end of July, albeit for very different reasons, but then again, that’s why I understand Lorelai keeping her distance and her mouth shut.
When Lorelai told Chris what she did she was not intending to make him feel bad. You could see that in her face when Chris blew up. She should have thought before speaking, but it wasn’t meant to be blameful.
I remember her speaking her mind about the Luke & Nicole thing, but what exactly did she *do* that was so bad? I can’t really remember her doing anything bad there..
Yeah, Lorelai could have waited till she was 18 to move out, but it still would have hurt Emily & Richard and they would still have issues. They didn’t banish her but they were in the process of arranging a wedding Lorelai didn’t want and wasn’t ready for. They are controlling. Its even more apparent with the way Emily was acting when Rory lived with them, even going so far as to say, “wait till your father gets home!” Clearly this is the behavior Lorelai used to see.
They all do things and say things that are childish, there’s a lot of resentment on both sides. They need some freakin’ family counseling, lol.
Marie,
You said, “I don’t think we all behave as Lorelai — some of us are too stoic, not as funny and not as charming, I’m sure — but I hope we also don’t overreact as Lorelai does.” And I completely agree. I identify with Lorelai but am nowhere near as open and charming as she can be. I’m the type of person who is quiet unless spoken too, in public anyway. I have a mild form of social anxiety.
The only time I find myself funny is when I’m joking around with family and friends. I think when Lorelai speaks of Christopher’s not being ready, she’s not quite ready herself yet either.
I love how these question posts swirl out and bring to mind all these other issues, lol, I love reading it all.
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269 days ago
WOW! This particular post really has everyone going. I didn’t put as much thought into it as some of the other commenters did. Perhaps I should have.
@thathappened Being selfish is not a good thing, in my humble opinion. I was living on my own at 16, just like Lor. I have issues with my parents and had to bust my butt for everthing I have ever had, just like Lor. Nothing has ever been given to me, just like Lor. So, I can relate to her character very much.
I am not selfish, though. And, I have a wonderful life now. So, I don’t think that her selfishness is ever good. It has only ever caused trouble in her life, from what we saw in the show.
Her selfishness caused trouble with Chris, Max, her parents, Sookie (a couple of times), Rory (a couple of times), Luke, etc. etc. etc.
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269 days ago
Sara, of course being selfish in general isn’t a good thing, its a certain kind of selfish, the way I see it. A lot of times its bad, like the examples above, but, like Lorelai moving out on her own terms, while hurting Richard & Emily, was what she needed – that kind of selfish. I doubt she would have done it that way otherwise.
I would never assume you to be a selfish person, you certainly don’t sound it, but do you think maybe your parents thought moving out at 16 was? They may have at the time. Its kind of a personal opinion thing, ya know? But, even so, things worked out for you, too.
A good example, imo – Lorelai being selfish by wanting one hour to get her hair done… she deserved that at the least with how tied up she was with everything. Basically, sometimes you have to be selfish, that’s just the way it is. People tend to be so, know matter how hard they try not to be.
I help my family out, run others errands, babysit for free, etc, etc. but if I couldn’t be selfish for myself from time to time, I would be taken advantage of.
Some think I’m being selfish for wanting to attend a local community college instead of working as much as my “husband.” I live in a tiny town between two small cities, so if I didn’t plan to further my education I am most certainly stuck with small time gas station jobs or Wal-Mart for who knows how long, lol. I want more for myself… which, technically, is selfish. That’s the kind I think is good for you.
I hope it makes sense. I suck at getting my points across, haha.
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269 days ago
Hello “TH!”
I would only say to all of this that what you’re not seeming to see is that Lorelai does not “mean” to do these things and yet she is the cause of so much hurt.
Yes, Emily antagonizes her. But take a look at how she behaves in the rest of the episodes this season specifically without Rory to check her. Some things are minor. Refusing to sit with Emily, dancing in the car to 80s music like a child, lying about looking for her lip gloss. Some are major. Antagonizing a designer because Emily has worked with her?
And it goes on and on, especially with Luke, never letting up on him, or respecting his choices, demanding to know where he is, it’s absurd.
And at the same time, which is Arieanna’s point, if she cared so much for him, how could she NOT think to get him a gift? I think her failure speaks for itself — and explains what kind of person would sleep with Christopher while she is engaged to a man who has done so much for her.
See Arieanna, your point has not been forgotten!
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269 days ago
@marie I do see that she doesn’t mean to do these things, but for some reason the phrase “walk on eggshells” comes to mind.
The dancing in the car… okay, is she not suppose to dance to fave songs now? Lol. She didn’t stay in the house cause Rory hadn’t arrived yet, somewhat childish, but is it a crime to want a buffer there with you to ease what could very easily be another ridicule session?
And she never said anything bad about Natalie other than working with her mother. She tried, then it got messy. No, she shouldn’t have fired her over the disagreement, but Emily was beginning to talk to her in a petty manner as well before Lorelai decided to fire her. She was annoying anyway, lol.
She did think to get Luke a gift, but with not finding anything good enough over the course of the trip she ended up forgetting. I don’t think this says she doesn’t care, if she didn’t she wouldn’t have made a big deal.
And are you guys talking about when she went to Christopher AFTER her split with Luke? Cause if it is, she didn’t cheat on Luke, they broke up. She walked away from him and he just let her… Unless you all mean Max.. But I don’t recall her cheating on him either… I’ll have to go home and watch that ep to refresh my memory if so.
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269 days ago
@ That Happened,
I think it’s pretty clear that you have a one-sided view of anything when it comes to Lorelai.
This is how Lorelai reasons all the time. You like “[Rory/Christopher], just not me.” Sometimes it’s the things you do you have to be accountable for.
Rory was able to relate to Richard and Emily, who were kind enough to be called her “twin pillars.” Rory inspired three very different boys/young men to do better because she knew how to be encouraging. Lorelai had failed relationships with her parents and her boyfriends largely because of her own behavior.
At some point, you have to say, not it’s not everyone else’s fault. It’s hers. If she had behaved differently, things would have been different.
No one said Lorelai couldn’t dance and sing in her car, come on. If you see the episode Marie was referring to, you can see how inappropriate it was at that moment. She had arrived for dinner, learned Rory wasn’t there, refused to sit with her mother, and went out and acted like a teenager in the car, being a goof, coming up with a ridiculous story about looking for her lip gloss, which Emily could see through.
All people expect of her is to act like an adult, not a fidgety child.
But here again, you can’t admit Lorelai’s reaction over Natalie the designer was irrational and leave it at that, you have to blame Emily for part of it, when Lorelai had flipped out LONG BEFORE Emily had even heard about it (even Sookie said so), and all Emily did was call her on the arrangement she made. No one told Lorelai to fire Natalie. That was her own overreaction.
Like Lorelai, if you act defensively, you’re going to read “attack” into anything anyone says about her and always find some other person to blame to rationalize it. The objective thing is to admit she’s bad when she’s bad. Are you going to tell us she was right to ignore her daughter for six months now? And no, she and Luke were not “broken up” when she slept with Christopher In her rant, she said it’s “now or never” and then “I have to go.” She never said the engagement is off. Yes, it takes two people to be engaged, but that’s hardly a breakup.
Lorelai is not a “horrible” person (note this is how she reacts when anyone criticizes her. “I get it. You think I’m horrible!”).
She’s funny. As a professional woman, she was a star. She’s beautiful and entertaining. In Season 1-3, at least, she showed that she had some real growth and maturity.
But she’s a childish person when it comes to her boyfriends, her parents, and even her daughter. It’s not mean to say these things about a character when this is how a character behaves.
And the way she behaved through this whole episode was ridiculous.
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269 days ago
@thathappened No I don’t think my parent’s thought it was selfish of me to be on my own at 16. My Mom was in and out of mental institutions, they were both alcoholics, and they kept getting evicted from our homes for not paying rent. My choices were to provide for myself, which meant eventually moving out, and working through high school. Or, stay with them. Infact, me moving out helped them. When my Mom went away for the last time, my Dad had no where to go. So, he lived with me for a while. So, no. I don’t think my parents thought I was selfish.
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267 days ago
@Josh
How exactly do I have a one-sided view of anything concerning Lorelai when I’ve been trying to point out the characters good and bad flaws, usually in a row? It seems to me that you think I do based solely on the fact that I stated she was my favorite, but by no means is she 100% perfect because nobody is. I just think its crazy to constantly blame her for nearly everything that’s going wrong.
The whole premise of the series involves the back and forth these people go through, showing how difficult it can be to move on. They all have issues with themselves and with others…
Yes, Rory did inspire three guys to do better… because she was instilled with those values… from Lorelai, but she also let herself turn inside out for one of them.
See, good and bad^ which is what I’ve been doing all long. Not very one-sided to me.
I did say had *they* (meaning any of these characters) acted or done (insert whatever wrong-doing here) then, yes, it would have gone differently. My point there was that with Emily in particular, she still would have had some kind of dig, most likely.
I know exactly which scene Marie is referring to, its one of the more memorable ones for me. She didn’t walk in and tell Emily, “I refuse to sit with you alone, I’ll come back when Rory arrives!” As far as she knew, Emily had no idea she was even there, hence trying to be sneaky. She was trying to eliminate what could possibly have been another argument session. Somedays you just feel it, that I-don’t-want-to-deal-with-yada yada-right-now…
Yes, she could have politely sat there on the couch and waited, but I enjoy seeing her dork out in the car, so I wouldn’t change that scene for anything if I had a choice in the matter.
Yes, expect her to act like an adult, but still, is she not allowed to have fun from time to time? Its kind of ridiculous to think that because she is of a certain age she is automatically acting childish at every turn. I hope I never feel like I can’t try to avoid a sticky situation, goof off, or even climb out of a window because of some lame guy.. And speaking of which, it was pointed out how childish it was for Lorelai to do that, nobody said anything of Emily not only climbing out of a window just to spite Richard, even going so far as to remove her skirt just to do so. Also “childish.” But again, a great scene.
“But here again, you can’t admit Lorelai’s reaction over Natalie the designer was irrational and leave it at that…”
I did admit it was wrong though. And I didn’t blame Emily, I said she was being petty. What else was Lorelai suppose to do? It was obvious Emily was upset and therefore not going to work with Natalie either way it went, so…
I’m not trying to just blame others. I’m trying to point out both sides of a story. I don’t think Lorelai was wrong not speaking to Rory. Rory screwed up. But, just as I am saying this, having gone over you telling me that I am being one-sided, why are you solely putting that mishap on Lorelai? Just as you’re upset that Lorelai didn’t speak to Rory for six months, I am that Rory didn’t either.
Yes, that was a breakup. How do you think its not? Like even you pointed out, she said, “now or never.” Marry me now, or you never will… basically. Luke wasn’t ready, therefore it was clear that “never” was his current choice of the two options, plus, again, he let her walk away, knowing all of this. Sounds pretty over to me. Not to mention Lorelai trying to get it through Luke’s thick skull later. He just didn’t want to believe it was, because of the way he’d been acting that whole season. The only way Lorelai could finally make him understand this was to tell him that she slept with Christopher.
And I don’t see how she’s “childish” or “selfish” because she tried to make it up to Luke… That shows me that she cares. She couldn’t find anything good enough, ended up forgetting by the end of the trip, and felt really bad about it, then tried to make up for it. Is she truly didn’t care, she would have been like, “oh well.”
@Sarah
I apologize for making you bring up, what I’m sure are painful memories. I had temporarily forgotten that there are millions of reasons you could be moving out at 16. I shouldn’t have assumed it was as similar to Lorelai’s experience. In your case, it was good for them, but what I meant was that, under certain circumstances, parents might think that it was selfish of their child to move out so young.
My roomate, for instance was given the biggest guilt trip when she wanted to move in with me. Her whole family called her selfish and mean and told her they would lose their house without her being there to help (which they didn’t.) She wasn’t anywhere close to 16. This was at the age of 25. A grown woman, having stayed with her family for so long because it was what they wanted. If she hadn’t been selfish on her own behalf she would still be living with them, would still feel trapped. But then again, it was the bad kind of selfish on their part for making her feel completely responsible for anything that could go wrong with her gone.
Again, I’m sorry for assuming what your situation might have been like, I was trying to make a point and ended up sticking my foot in my mouth, please forgive me.
I didn’t join in to argue with anyone, I just felt the need to try to point out the good and the bad because I’ve seen a lot of negativity towards pretty much only Lorelai lately. I don’t think she’s completely innocent, but I don’t think she is the cause of everything wrong. I watch how they all interact with each other. My family and I always discuss how Lorelai did this, or Emily said that, or Jess shouldn’t have lied there, or Dean’s being too needy here, etc, etc.. We love it – *I* love it, that’s how I ended up reading all these comments.
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266 days ago
@thathappened No worries. I didn’t take it personally. I have no problems talking about my hardships, as they made me the strong, independent, empathetic woman that I am today. I was just pointing out that in my case, my parents did not think it selfish of me to move out at a young age.
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266 days ago
I agree with thathappened, most of the recent posts have been a huge argument about Lorelai’s behavior. Why is it that everyone seems to be blaming Lorelai for everything? No, she most certainly isn’t perfect, but none of the characters on the show are perfect. Amy Sherman-Palladino was right when she said family drama is universal. Every family has issues, and that’s what this show was all about. I could go on and on listing examples of conflict from the show that did not involve Lorelai (but I won’t…). The show benefits from all the tension and drama, and it seems unfair to put all the blame on just one character.
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